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tv   MSNBC Live With Craig Melvin  MSNBC  December 13, 2017 10:00am-11:00am PST

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house and the senate bills, i can only tell you that we have very, very talented representatives right here. and i think i can say, orrin, that we're very close, right? >> we're very, very close. >> we'll get it done. >> i want to thank senator orrin hatch. he's been incredible. and kevin brady, incredible. you guys have just been really, really amazing. although i should say that when we sign. we've been there too many times. let's get the vote first, right? i want to thank my whole team, gary and steve and everybody, the whole team has been really something special. and diane, thank you very much for everything. we appreciate it. >> you're welcome. >> so, we're very close to getting it done. we're very close to voting. and our economy, as you know, has surged from where it is when i took it over. we were having an economy that was going in the wrong direction. they can say all they want about the last administration or even administrations. this country was going in the
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wrong direction from the economic standpoint. and you saw where it was, one of the early times. we were at about 1% and 1.2% and you were going down. 401(k)s right now, i met last week in new york city with a very, very fine group of policemen. they were all so happy about their 401(k)s. they feel like they're geniuses because in one case he said, i'm up 39%. i see all the guys carrying the booms are smiling. are you up, too? yes, he is. look at him. he's got that pole. he's got the one that's the highest and the closest. he's a good boomer. but he's got a big smile on his face, right? thank you. usually with the press they won't admit it, but he does because he's beyond the press. but i want to -- i just want to say that people are up 30%, 40%, 50%, depending on what's in there. and they are very, very happy. we think we'll grow that a lot more. we think the economy has a long
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way to grow and it needs the tax cut, it needs it desperately. all of that will be spent on expanding businesses. we have so many different things in this bill that are going to create jobs. for me, this is a bill very simple. it's a massive tax cut for the middle class and it's about jobs. and the jobs are really defined by the companies. the companies are going to be expanding and creating jobs. you know, in education we're talking choice. in jobs we'll be talking choice, too. because people go for one job and they don't have many options. they're going to have plenty of options. they'll look at five, six, seven jobs and pick the one they want. and wages are starting to go up. first time in many years, wages now are starting to go up. we have a lot of great things happening. but what really is something that i think will really be the capper is going to be the massive tax cuts that we're planning, that hopefully within a very short period of time
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we'll have signed into law. it will be bigger than anything done in this country. bigger than the reagan cuts, and it will also be reform. there are also some other things in that bill that are very, very big that are somewhat unrelated, but ultimately i think it's all related. i just want to thank everybody at the table. everybody at the table for being here. and i want to have a very fast lunch so you can go immediately back and finish it up. i actually feel very guilty having you here. so, i want you to go back immediately and finish it up. thank you very much. it's going to be something very, very special. thank you, all. thank you. >> the 21% corporate tax rate, you signed for 21%? >> i would. >> you would? >> i would. we'll see where it ends up, but certainly i would. it's at 35% right now, so if it got down to 21%, i would certainly be -- i would be thrilled. i would be thrilled. we'll see. we haven't set that final figure
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yet. but certainly 21% is a very great difference. >> mr. president, in alabama, is it crucial -- [ inaudible ] >> i think it's very important for the country to get a vote next week. not because we lost a seat. a lot of republicans feel differently. they're very happy with the way it turned out. but i would have -- the leader of the party, i would have liked to have had the seat. i want to endorse the people that are running. i will tell you that it's -- to me, it's very, very -- just very important to get this vote. not because of that, but because of the -- and i don't know what the vote will be. i don't know exactly the final. we have a margin now of two plus our great vice president. so, i really -- i think we're going to get the vote. but i will say, we have to get more senators and more congressmen that are republicans elected in '18. then you'll see a lot more of what we're doing right now. >> how could that loss affect your agenda? >> i don't think it's going to affect it.
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i think we're doing a lot. this is the biggest thing we've worked on. this also has to do with other subjects, as you know. i won't mention the subjects but there are some subjects in here that are very vital to the -- beyond, i'm talking about beyond pure tax and tax cuts. but i'm just very excited by it. this is one of the biggest pieces of legislation ever signed by this country. and i can tell you that everybody around this table, we are very, very excited about it. and thank you all very much. appreciate it. thank you very much. >> thanks, mr. president. >> good afternoon to you. craig melvin on msnbc. some breaking news right now. republicans telling nbc they have reached a deal in principle to pass tax reform. as you just saw there, as you just heard, president trump at the white house with members of the house and senate who are charged with merging those two bills that came from the separate chambers. the president is scheduled to give what the white house calls a closing argument for tax
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reform. that is scheduled to happen about two hours from now at the treasury department. again, president trump there just a few moments ago, talking, by and large, about that tax reform deal that appears poised to pass both chambers. perhaps before christmas, it would seem. the president also taking a handful of questions there. he did talk about the upset last night in alabama, acknowledging that a number of republicans were pleased with the outcome, indicating, though, that he would have preferred to, of course, keep that seat. for more on all of this, capitol hill correspondent kasie hunt joins me now. so does our chief white house correspondent, hallie jackson. hallie, let me start with you. again, nbc confirming that republicans have reached this deal in principle. what does in principle mean? >> reporter: well, that nobody's signed on the dotted line just yet. we don't have the text of what
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this looks like. that there are still -- you could say a question mark about the numbers. from what we've seen widely reported, it looks like the corporate rate will come down. there are some discussions about the top tax rate, too. it looks as though that's going to come down. let me point out one number that seems significant that you heard the president mention in the last three minutes there in that pool spray, and the number is 21%. that is -- it looks as though, based on sort of what we've been hearing, where this will end up. the corporate rate currently at 35%. this was a big deal to the president. this is something he talked a lot about. he flirted with the rate as low as 15% early on in this process. it's our reporting that his advisers steered him away from that. that was a little much, a little extreme, if you will. the president has talked for weeks, for months, i guess, about 20% being his red line. although as you heard him say there, a little bit of news, he would be fine with something at 21%. there was also a question of qul it would be 22%. looks like they're splitting the difference. the other part you heard is the timing of this.
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the president getting a question on it, tying it back to the senate race in alabama that we've been talking about. doug jones, still a question mark of when he will be seated in the senate. calls from democrats, as kasie knows, to delay any kind of push on this tax bill until after doug jones comes if. it looks as though that's not going to happen. but the president talking about how important it is, how urgent it is to get something done now. that jibes with the timing i have heard from senior administration officials here. they want to get something done -- they expect, actually, something will be done by wednesday, next wednesday. that's a week from, i think, today. and then think about it, everybody blows town for christmas and for the holidays, craig. that looks to be the timeline. again, still a question. you heard the president citing some numbers there of how this would affect the average family of four. without knowing the specifics of the plan and having run that through the analyses, it's tough to say for sure. the treasury department, of course, has come under fire for its one-page analysis, essentially confirming that unless a lot of other things go
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right economically over the next year, the senate bill isn't going to pay for itself. i'll leave you with one other thought. the white house saying the president won't auto lean into specks. don't expect to hear nitty gritty from the president. the president looking to make that big, final sell. >> to be clear, though, should this thing actually happen, again at this point, at this hour, of course it's washington, d.c., so things obviously change very quickly, if this happens, this would be the president's -- >> reporter: big win. >> -- first legislative victory of his administration, right? >> reporter: more than ever, republicans need it. they need something to fly into 2018 and to look ahead to the midterms and say, look at what we did. we actually did something concrete. yes, republicans talk a lot about getting neil gorsuch on the supreme court. that was earlier in the year. obviously. as far as a legislative accomplishment, something like this, the president was not able to get something done on health care. he has stalled on other priorities.
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this would be -- that's part of why this is so important for the president to get done and for white house officials to finish this up before the end of the year. they want to know they're going into the holidays and go into the new year with a victory. >> kasie, again, house and senate leaders still have to sell this plan that came out of conference. they have to sell it to their members. is this a plan that they can sell? >> i think so, craig. i mean, i think the reason why they're saying in principle is just because they need to finish actually drafting the legislative la legislative language. they need some scoring to nail down a few final details. but i think the sense here, and leadership in addition to the conferees, very involved in this. they know their members very well. and this announcement would not be coming if it didn't seem clear at least to leadership that they think they can get this across the finish line in both of these chambers. they think the senate, as per usual, is a trickier place to navigate. so, you know, many of the things
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in this bill were written with that in mind. some of the details that we're hearing about reflect essentially compromises that make changes to the house bill to make it palatable to to the senate, changes to the home mortgage deduction, for example, on the house side. they had anything over $500,000 wasn't going to be deductible for future home purchases. they've raised that threshold to $750,000, we believe at this stage in the negotiations. of course, that corporate tax rate went up a little bit from 20% to 21%. that helps cover some other changes that they were making through this negotiating process. but at this point, unless we hit some unforeseen snag, this process has unfolded basically as republican leaders have insisted that it would and that the president has demanded. they have moved very quickly. the political imperative around this is to get it done, because if they don't, then what? what do they go home and tell
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donors? what do they go home and tell voters about what they're able to accomplish and why they should continue to maintain the majority here. again, it looks like that's on track. it sounds like if the white house is saying wednesday, that's a pretty rapid timetable. you know, any weekend is usually a big motivating force to get these members of congress out of the halls and back to their home districts, so i can tell you, christmas is an even more significant motivating factor. i think at this point, the last we knew, this was on track to see a senate vote on monday and potentially a house vote right after that. we'll keep you updated for that timeline. >> really quickly, the individual mandate in obamacare, kasie, what do we know about that? >> reporter: yes. that is actually something we're trying to do more reporting on. the last we knew the individual mandate repeal was still going to tb included in this bill. it's something we're going to be keeping a very close eye on. it's something that particular piece of it, obviously, was not
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a problem for senators march cow ski and collins who voted against the overall health care package last year. it's not something that has caused the same kind of level of concern and problem that the broader health care bill did. so, the sense was that house leaders were signaling it was probably going to be okay with their conference. it looks like that is likely to be on track. again, we'll update you once we get the final version of this deal across the wires. >> kasie hunt there on capitol hill and hallie jackson at her second home there, 1600 pennsylvania avenue. a big thanks to both of you. let's talk taxes here. what will this plan mean and whath will it not mean? msnbc contributor jared bernstein is with us. he was chief economist for joe biden. josh barro, senior editor at business insider and dane yell poleta from "the washington post" is also here. big thanks to being here.
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i know the compromise that will reduce the corporate tax rate to 21%, as we understand it, as well as cutting the top tax rate for earners. this is what the president said about that a few moments ago. take a listen. >> it's at 35% right now, so if it got down to 21%, i would certainly be -- i would be thrilled. >> the unpack this for us, sir. tell us a little more about that and any other details that you might know. >> that's right. so, remember, president trump wanted the rate to be set at 15%. then he was sort of talked up to 20% and he drew a red line and said he wouldn't go any higher. getting it at 21% is still a huge victory for him. i think the most important part is the tax cuts will go into effect it january. remember, the senate bill would only have these tax cuts go into effect in 2019 so there would be a whole year of lag. he gets this tax cut to go into effect immediately. that's really going to, you know, be big on wall street. companies will get to do these tax cuts immediately. that will save them a lot of money. we'll be able to see the impact
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immediately. >> are payroll companies going to be able to adjust that quickly? >> that's a great question. i was just thinking, you know, if you're thinking of buying a home right now, it's going to impact the mortgage you get in january, right, because they'll change the mortgage rules, especially for people that live in california, new york, connecticut, places like that where the houses are really expensive. there will be a lot of scrambling. the irs will have to come out with a lot of rules immediately. i'm sure there will be a lot of confusion and mistakes in the first few months, perhaps longer. they're trying to do this, obviously, at the end of december. a lot of these tax cuts will go into effect immediately in january. >> jared, i made some notes while the president was speaking. these are just a few of the things he promised this tax plan is going to do. help us compete globally. it's going to simplify the tax code, trillions of dollars are going to come in offshore and wages are going to go up. the wage stagnation we've been experiencing in this country is going to cease to exist. are any of those things true? >> i'm very skeptical about every one of those things.
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for example, corporations currently are sitting on really vast troves of investment capital. they've retained trillions of earnings over the years. if they want to borrow, interest rates are really low. if they wanted to invest more, they could do so. in terms of wages, well, actually, wages -- the president was wrong about that. wages have been going up. they were growing about 2% around a year ago. now they're growing about 2.5%. that's a little ahead of inflation. it is true that with unemployment this low, we'd expect wages to be rising more quickly. you have to remember what the president is actually talking about is very complicated chain with a lot of links. corporate profitability goes up. that raises investment. that raises productivity. that trickles down, that's keyword, triblgs down to workers. every one of those links is fragi fragile. as i've point out, the investment channel, they could do that if they wanted to. as far as productivity growth, reaching workers, well, that hasn't happened for a while now. so, i'm very skeptical about
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that point. the solid economy is going to generate some wage angst, no question. linking that to the tax kushgcu wouldn't go there. >> josh, the social safety net in this country, what will this plan mean for the social safety net, specifically medicare, specifically health care costs? >> first of all, there are these pego rules that are rules that govern the federal budget that say there are supposed to be automatic cuts in swraers kind of spending. i think it is very likely that the house and senate will waive those cuts and you won't see those automatic cuts. in the longer run because this tax cut will lose revenue for the government in the ballpark of $1 trillion plus in additional debt compared to the debt we already would have borrowed under the tax law without these changes. because of that it's going to be harder for the government to meet its needs. it will have to borrow more money, push interest rates up, make it more expensive for the government to run deficits. in the long run you'll have to pay for that with taxes in the
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future. that could cause pressure for the government to later pass cuts in medicare spending, medicaid spending, et cetera. there have been rumblings in congress that they want to take on some type of entitlement reform. there's been some talk about some welfare reforms maybe adding work requirements, programs that don't have them now. those changes probably wouldn't change the overall spending level that much if they pursued that route. definitely there are republicans who would like to go next after the social safety net. remember when president trump ran for president, he said he wouldn't cut medicare and social security because he'd make us so rich it wouldn't be necessary to do that. i think president trump and the people in his administration actually believe what they're saying when they claim this tax cut will grow the economy so much that it will pay for itself. that's not going to happen. but if they believe it's going to happen, then i see no reason for them to pursue cuts to entitlements over the next few years. >> does this simplify the tax code, as you understand it? >> to some extent. i think it simple nice the tax
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code for most individual filers. more will take itemized deduction. the bill doubles the standard deduction and takes away the exemption. the doubling isn't as great as it sounds. you can exclude 16% of your income automatically than you otherwise would. that change will mean a lot fewer people will choose to write off mortgage interest, state and federal taxes. for those people, filing will be simpler. on the other hand, there are some business provisions in here that are very complicated, including a tax preference for only certain kinds of businesses that are owned directly by individuals. so, there's going to be a lot of questions, people sitting down with tax lawyers and accountants trying to demonstrate their business activities are elviigie for that. >> can i make one comment on this. >> quickly. >> very quickly. you know, there's some outrage that i'd like to bring to table here on this safety net cutting thing. i mean, republicans are basically pointing to a budget
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deficit that they're about to make at least $1 trillion deeper and saying, oh, my goodness, there's a deficit. we're going to have to cut the safety net. now, moderate and low income people get about nothing from this tax cut, especially when it's fully phased in and now hit twice by these cuts. i think it's extremely unfair. i didn't want to let that go unsaid. >> jared bernstein, thank you. josh, thank you, damion, thanks as well for your insight at "the washington post." that is one big story we are covering. of course, that tax plan that appears to be the first legislative victory for the president. the other big story, the upset in alabama, it's got a lot of democrats hopeful about 2018. we have a congresswoman from alabama who campaigned with doug jones. she is standing by to tell us just how much this race means to her state, how much it means to the national political landscape as well. needles.
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i think it's very important for the country to get a vote next week. not because we lost a seat, which we would have gotten the seat. a lot of republicans feel differently. they're very happy with the way it turned out. but i would have -- as the leader of the party, i would have liked to have had this seat. i want to endorse the people that are running. i will tell you that to me it's very, very -- just very important to get this vote. >> president trump just a few moments ago there talking tax cuts also talking about that stunning loss in alabama last
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night. republican senate majority cut in half last night. a two-vote margin for error in the senate has become one. when that senate seat officially flips is somewhat in question. what is not in question, the strong turnout among black voters who helped put jones over the top. terri sewell is a democratic congresswoman from alabama, and sits on the tax-writing ways and means committee. always good to see you, congresswoman. >> so exciting today. >> getting black voters to the polls was instrumental. we looked at the numbers. we know that's the case. what was the poll, was it roy moore, was it president trump, was it a combination of the two? >> listen, i think african-american voters as alabama voters writ large knew the stakes were so high. this was a true referendum in the african-american community against the trump administration and its policies. so, look, people came out in
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droves. i was so excited. for us to have african-american turnout that reached the levels of obama in 2008 is amazing. 30% turnout. we only make up 23% of the electorate, so that was really -- meant that people in my district overperformed. i'm so grateful because i think it shows the world what i've already known, which is that the heart and soul of the people of alabama is decency. its integrity. it's character. we chose that over party yesterday and to me that's the story. >> a number of republican senators have been telling our reporters throughout the morning and last night as well that the race is a story about a flawed candidate, nothing more. what about last night do you think that your party can replicate in 2018 during the midterms? >> listen, i think we learned that a coalition of traditional democratic base, african-americans, along with white suburban women, white educated electorate and moderate
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republicans could be an interesting coalition that could be a winning coalition for democrats across this nation. you know, i think the real story within the african-american community is really the black women's vote. and women's vote generally. jones was able to garner 57% of all female voters last night. 57%. and that was 16 points more than moore. and i -- you know, with that it meant that african-american women voted for jones by 98% while white women voted for him by 37%. look, i think that it's really important that we get a coalition. what we learned last night is we can put together winning coalitions, even in the reddest of states and places like alabama, people will look at the candidate selection and the issues. the message matters. the candidate matters. also the coalition-building matters as well. >> i know you've got to go and vote. i'll let you go. the pride and joy of selma, alabama. congresswoman, thank you.
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>> thank you. for more, josh moon, columnist with the alabama political reporter, jon meacham, author, editor and msnbc contributor and eugene scott, political reporter for "the washington post." coming to us from birmingham, alabama, on this wednesday. josh, let me start with you. let me show what may be the biggest number out of last night's exit polling. in is the president's approval rating. this is back on election day 2016. president trump won 62% of the vote. 62% with almost a 28-point advantage. last night voters gave trump a 48% approval rating, dead even with his disapproval. what message should national republicans take from that number? >> i think you should take that even in a very, very red state, you are losing voters over some of the policies that you have implemented here and some of the scandals that have taken place. and by marginalizing a lot of
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voters here. you know, the black voter turnout last night speaks volumes, i think, to the motivation of a lot of people who have historically in alabama not played a large role in state elections and in state wide elections. so, i think that's a pretty clear message to them nationally. >> i want to go back here, josh, to something that congresswoman sewell said there as well, a top line for me at least. black voters coming out in obama-like numbers for doug jones. here's the thing, no obama on the ticket, nonpresidential year. the temperature in alabama yesterday, you know, i know it's close to 50 degrees and in alabama that might as well be 20, and you know what folks say about voters of color when the conditions aren't perfect, we don't show up to vote. that wasn't the case last night. the 29% of the turnout last night, similar to the 28% in 2012. exactly the same as 2008.
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what about reporter vaughn hilliard who talked to black voters this morning. listen to one of them said. >> reporter: you voted yesterday. >> yes. >> reporter: who did you vote for and why? >> doug jones, democrat. we need a change. it's scary out there. you know, i'm like -- since we've got the new president and everybody's been accused of sexual harassment and molesting women and stuff, we need a change. >> eugene, what do you make of that? >> yeah, when i was speaking with voters, craig, i think it's important to communicate that black voters were certainly disgusted by the allegations of sexually assaulting minors but most black voters i spoke with were voting against roy moore before those stories came out. roy moore has a history in this state of seeing things that many black voters find problematic and unwelcoming and not inclusive. they did not someone like that representing them in washington during the trump era. >> any idea what roy moore does now, eugene?
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>> well, ideally, if he really wants to win black voters in a future election, he could hear them out and make them included in making this state great again but he hasn't had a track record of doing that and many black voters i spoke aren't confident he'll move in that direct. >> the president tried to take a bit of a victory lap on twitter earlier today. quote, the reason i originally endorsed luther strange is that i said roy moore will not be able to win the general election. i was right. roy worked hard but the deck was stacked against him. the president, of course, actually endorsed both men at various points, which makes him 0 for 2 in this race. how does a loss of this magnitude diminish a president's political capital, jon meacham? >> well, the majority in the senate's been cut in half. as a pure mathematical effort it gets more difficult for him to pass what he wants to pass. now, if he loses one vote, and he's been so warm and accommodating toward senator flake and senator corker and
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others, i have a feeling that that's going to be a tricky bridge to rebuild. what i think happened in alabama, my neighbors in alabama, managed to prove winston churchill right one more time. he said, you can count on americans to do the right thing once they've exhausted every other possibility. andmessage, i think, that the president and this kind of reality show excess that has become so much a part of our politics is not going to always carry the day. >> jon, you've obviously been following the steve bannon component to all of this. this is what an aide to steve bannon tells nbc news. quote, after doing everything in their power to throw this election to a liberal democrat, the mcconnell establishment should expect the very same america first movement that elected the president in 2016 to be out for their blood in 2018.
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was steve bannon's influence diminished at all last night or does he still have enough pull among trump's base to still cause trouble for mitch mcconnell and other members of the so-called establishment? >> that's the key question before the 2020 presidential election, is did bannon -- did the breitbartism of the america first wave that elected trump, did that carry such a flawed candidate to within 20,000 votes? senator-elect jones won. it's probably good news for the country, probably inarguably. but it was close. this was not a blowout. i do think that that's going to be a salient factor going forward. we're about to have a big race in tennessee, which is about as red as alabama almost. where a former democratic governor, phil bredison, is
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running for the senate. the last time a statewide democrat won statewide was 12 years ago and his name was phil bredison. when the margin is this close, you know, everything counts. i think one thing to keep in mind is in a 51-49 senate, if you need one more example of how fundamentally divided the country is, just look at that number. >> we'll leave it there. appreciate it. moments ago the testimony of deputy attorney general rod rosenstein on capitol hill took a break so committee members could go vote along with congresswoman terri sewell. rosenstein in front of that committee, judiciary committee, answering questions about special counsel robert mueller's russia investigation. republicans on the judiciary committee really pressed rosenstein on the impartiality of mueller's probe.
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rosenstein's appearance coming a day after the doj released those text messages between an fbi agent and an fbi attorney that disparaged president trump during the campaign. they were turned over to lawmakers. this is just a portion of what rod rosenstein had to say about robert mueller. >> have you seen good cause to fire special counsel mueller? >> no. >> thank you. if you are ordered today to fire mr. mueller, what would you do? >> i've explained previously, i would follow the regulation. if there were good cause, i would act. if there were no good cause, i would not. >> you've seen no good cause so far? >> correct. >> nbc's ken is covering the hearing for us. ken, what were the key questions for the deputy attorney general this morning? >> well, craig, there are really two headlines out of this hearing. you just heard one of them is that rod rosenstein, the man who appointed robert mueller, sees no reason to fire him, sees no impropriety and essentially defended robert mueller's character.
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the other big headline is nearly every republican on the judiciary committee was raising questions about what they see as bias in the mueller investigation. one of them, representative jim jordan of ohio, called for the mueller investigation to be disbanded. they are citing these text messages that you mentioned that were released last night between the two fbi officials who are no longer on the investigation. those messages show a bias toward donald trump and many independent observers have said that was inappropriate and they're under investigation now by the inspector general. what the republicans didn't cite is any actual evidence of bias by mueller or his people or any evidence of unfairness or impropriety. rod rosenstein was asked whether he had seen any evidence of that. he said he hadn't. a lot of independent observers are worrying that these are wenz now laying the groundwork for a potential decision to fire mueller. now, rod rosenstein would be the guy that would have to fire mueller because jeff sessions, the attorney general, is recused.
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if sessions leaves the committee, another attorney general takes over, that person would take over the mueller investigation and that's got a lot of people worried. >> breaking it down for us. is the hearing over or just on break, by the way? >> they are coming back, they say. they're on a short break for votes. >> thank you, sir. we'll check in with you in a bit. women and roy moore, how big of a role did the moment that we're in right now, how much of that played into roy moore's historic defeat? (door bell rings) you're drew brees?! i'm sorry to bother you, but my car broke down and i'd really appreciate a ride to the stadium. yes! ...but, no, i have to stay here and wait for a package. i thought anybody who rooted for me would have fedex delivery manager. that way you can sign for your packages remotely and even customize your delivery time. (car alarm beeps) excuse me sir, could you take me to the stadium? sure! hop in. - thank you.- hope you like jazz fusion. (neighbor starts singing) sorry. customize your deliveries with fedex delivery manager.
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two resounding voices in alabama's electorate are being heard today. women and black voters came out in big numbers to make doug jones the first democrat in 25 years one of that state's u.s. senators. 57% of women cast their vote for jones and black voters made up 29% of total voters. that's more than the 28% who turned out back in 2012 to vote for a guy named barack obama when he ran for his second term. black voters vote for jones over moore 96% to 4%. for more, "new york times" opinion column michelle goldberg and adrian elrod. ladies, thank you for being with me. >> thanks, craig. >> you wrote an op-ed that caught our attention before the election. i want to read a snippet. moore in the senate would send a message that defending slavery,
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never mind segregation, is no longer beyond the pale. we have been focused on the sexual misconduct allegations against roy moore, which of course he denies, but you contend and have been contending for a couple weeks now that this was much bigger than just the women. explain. >> i think -- that was obviously part of it, right, most women, most people don't want a pedophile in congress. but the -- i think -- >> accused. >> an accused pedophile in congress. i think one of the things that got lost in the focus on his sexual transgressions is that there were so many other things that should have disqualified roy moore, including his absolutely vicious racism, apologies for slavery, apologies for segregation. this is someone who when asked by an african-american at one of his rallies, when was the last time america was truly great? his answer is it was great during the time of slavery
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because families were strong. we can only imagine what kind of families he was talking about, right? that's in keeping with his history. he's also somebody who has said he would like to repeal every amendment after the tenth, which would include both the amendment abolishing slavery and the amendment giving women the right to vote. so, my sense is that black voters in alabama were very aware of who this man was and kind of -- and the unbelievable contrast to doug jones, who's a civil rights hero. >> adrian, so black voters is one part of the story. the other part of the story, women voters in alabama showed up in a big way in general. women voters who did not show up for hillary clinton. here are the numbers, 53% of white women voted for trump, 42% of total women voted for trump. 51% of white women with college degrees voted for clinton. why do you think women were so inclined to show up and vote
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last night for doug jones but not for a woman who was at the top of a ticket? >> look, i think that a lot of these women realize how important their vote is. i think they took a lot of that for granted, perhaps, during the presidential election. since then they've seen a president who has assaulted every single constituent out there, in particular women. he certainly has an issue with any woman who disagrees with him or anybody who he considers to be powerful who pushes his buttons, he lashes out. and i think a lot of these women are fed up with, it frankly. along with african-americans. people are fed up with the way president trump conducts himself and they're revolting -- >> so you think last night was a referendum on the president? >> absolutely, absolutely. i think this is a good sign for us going into 2018. i don't see any signs that president trump has any intention of changing his tactics and the way he conducts himself. so, this is a good thing for 2018. and the democrats have taken
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such advantage of this moment in a good way and i think we'll continue to see that going forward into 2018. >> another big story right now, of course, happening until congress, it seems as if every couple of days there's a lawmaker forced to resign. al franken, i know that the minnesota senator of course today, the governor announcing his replacement is going to be the lieutenant governor from that state, a woman. this is something that you really struggle with. you went back and forth. another article of yours here. this is from november 20th. it doesn't matter that franken's transgression wasn't on the same level of the abuses as the alabama senate candidate roy moore and donald trump have been accused of. it's easy to condemn morally worthless men like trump. it's much harder to figure out what should happen to men who make valuable and political can cultural contributions and whose alleged misdeeds fall far short of criminal. where should that line be? >> oh, i don't feel like i'm qualified to draw that line.
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and i think we're all really struggling over where that line should be. and i'm still -- to me, the problem with al franken was two-fold. one, it was the drip, drip, drip of these allegations. and it was also the pressure that it put on the other members of his party, particularly the women of his party, who they don't want to have to be out there negotiating that line either. right? i mean, kristen gillibrand doesn't want to have to go out and defend why, when she's such a strong voice against sexual harassment, why she's nevertheless defending her colleague. i mean, and there are a lot of ways that you can defend al franken. what he's been accused of is not on the scale of what some of these men have been accused of. nevertheless, he was becoming an albatross around the necks of a lot of people in his party who want to be able to draw a very clear contrast with the republican party, which is the party of impunity for sexual harassments. >> gillibrand, elizabeth warren,
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other prominent female, democratic lawmakers, over the next year are we going to continue to see their profile raised or are they going to become the leaders of the democratic party that we see at the rallies, that we see on tv, are they going to become that because of the current climate? >> i don't think it's just because much the current climate. i think it has to do with the fact that people are still ready for a woman to be a president and to be in leadership positions. but, look, i think a lot of this has to do with the fact that weave got we've got a president in the white house and people are sick and tired and ready to move forward. i see senator gillibrand, senator warren as continuing to be leaders in our party. >> we'll leave it there. thank you. always good to have you. a tip of the hat. last night's big defeat for steve bannon has him giving out some surprising compliments on this day after election. right now democratic
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lawmakers joining protesters outside the capitol. they are railing against that republican tax plan that we started the broadcast with. right now senator ron wyden there from oregon, who is speaking. we are monitoring that event. we will bring you any news that comes from that event. for your heart... your joints... or your digestion... so why wouldn't you take something for the most important part of you... your brain. with an ingredient originally found in jellyfish, prevagen is now the number one selling brain health supplement in drug stores nationwide. prevagen. the name to remember. if yor crohn's symptoms are holding you back, and your current treatment hasn't worked well enough, it may be time for a change. ask your doctor about entyvio, the only biologic developed
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before the commercial break there, senator elizabeth warren was there. right now, this is randi weingarten, who at one point ran the largest teacher's union. elizabeth warren just a short time ago. take a listen. >> we believe that no middle class family in this country should have to pay more in taxes so that giant corporations and billionaires can pay less. are you ready to tell mitch mcconnell, no vote on the republican tax scam until doug jones takes his seat in the senate? >> yeah! >> no vote. [ chanting: no vote ] >> earlier today, republican congressman peter king of new york lashed out at the man that he sees as one of the chief strategists of roy moore's big loss last night, steve bannon. >> i don't think steve bannon
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adds anything positive at all to the dialogue in the country. he looked like some disheveled drunk that wandered in off the street. to have him become the face of politics and to have a major voice in politics i think is wrong. i think we should shun him. i think we should cut him off. >> bannon went all in for roy moore in that alabama senate race, but his kpacampaign effor resulted in a loss. not the first time steve bannon's candidate has lost an election. not long ago, ed gillespie in virginia lost his bid to become governor there. that was just last month. many republicans have made it clear that they did not support roy moore, but now they are distancing themselves from steve bannon, as well. conservative commentator, charlie sykes, is also an msnbc contributor. charlie, i want to play some sound from steve bannon on his radio show. this is steve bannon on breitbart just a few hours ago. take a listen. >> huge turnout yesterday. and that's because the democrats hustled. and you know, people have got to understand, you don't turn out, they're going to turn out. hat tip to these guys at the
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dnc. they slipped here under the radar scope and did a great job of ground game. and you've got to -- of all the other convergence of forces, as you said, alex marlow, just out-hustling and out-working people is a big one. >> charlie, that sounded like a backhanded slap there at the rnc, as well. >> well, it is interesting that he would take that tack, because yesterday was a complete humiliation and rejection of not only steve bannon, but that whole bannonite, breitbart wing of the party. and, you know, the reality is is that steve bannon, you know, is toxic to other republicans. and obviously, you know, this is going to lead to a lot of second-guessing, you know, around the country. senate candidates that have aligned themselves with him. but keep in mind that steve bannon is frankly not focused on winning anything. he is more focused on tearing things down. he's a political nihilist who's an arsonist who wants to burn down the house because he can
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burn down the house. so, you know, this may be a moment of graciousness, because he realizes the extent of the repudiation and the impairment that he suffered last night, but it won't last. >> you wrote an article -- you wrote a column, rather, in "the new york times" this morning and i want to share a snippet of it. "every stage of the run-up to the special election, the republicans could have resisted, pushed back, drawn lines, but their failure to do so led them inexorably to this moment, the defeat of an unreconstructed bigot and ignorant crank who had the full-throated backing of the president they have embraced and empowered." what does this mean for the gop, for the republican party over the next year, charlie? >> it means that even with this defeat, they are lashed to donald trump and the memory of roy moore, because, you know, the bottom line is you had the republican national committee and the president of the united states in full-throated support of somebody who was just -- as i said, you know, an
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unreconstructed, bigot on so many levels. and they're not going to be able to walk that back. and so what that article basically says is, you know, this is the culmination of this two-year capitulation of the republican party to donald trump. >> charlie, i wish we had more time, but we do not, good sir. thanks, as always. talk to you soon. >> thank you. a little more than an hour from now, president trump will be making his so-called closing argument for that tax plan. but even before he starts that, house and senate leaders are getting ready to meet for the first time to start hammering out the details on what that bill is going to look like. we will be watching for both of those in the next hour. it's time now for "your business" of the week. 'tis the season all year long at bronner's christmas store in michigan has been a global icon ever sin wally bronner started it more than 70 years ago. 2 million customers shop at the
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store every year. for more, watch "your business" weekend mornings at 7:30 on msnbc. so that's the idea. what do you think? hate to play devil's advocate but... i kind of feel like it's a game changer. i wouldn't go that far. are you there? he's probably on mute. yeah... gary won't like it. why? because he's gary. (phone ringing) what? keep going! yeah... (laughs) (voice on phone) it's not millennial enough. there are a lot of ways to say no. thank you so much. thank you! so we're doing it. yes! "we got a yes!" start saying yes to your company's best ideas. let us help with money and know-how, so you can get business done. american express open. i am totally blind. and non-24 can throw my days and nights out of sync, keeping me from the things i love to do. talk to your doctor, and call 844-214-2424.
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weraise their voice to sayo lethat this presidentle is unfit for office and needs to go. i love it! yes! yes! [ chuckles ] there it is -- over there! mcminnville, tennessee... poughkeepsie, new york... milton, indiana... chattahoochee, florida... wow... we're looking at the whole country. not just the coasts. even in utah, we're starting to realize trump has been doing things that are against our laws. i definitely worry about war. north korea. i don't want that guy's hand near the bomb. sick to my stomach. he's not the kind of person that should be running our country. the things that he does has consequences. is this going to be here for my grandchildren? he's not being held accountable. if we have the vote, like we have for election day, they will impeach him. times square is the crossroads of the world. we need everyone to go and put their name down at we need to speak up together and demand an end to this presidency.
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find your rate in just two minutes, and take on your debt at that'll do it for this hour of msnbc live. i'm craig melvin. katy tur is here. >> i'm just about ready to take it over. >> you ready? >> i need one more second. okay, now i'm ready. >> fresh off the stephen colbert show last night, she's got that comedic timing down. >> that's right. 11:00 a.m. out west and 2:00 p.m. in washington, d.c. where we are following breaking news. republicans in the senate and the house have reached a sweeping tax deal, at least in principle, that will impact every single american. president trump will deliver his closing argument in just an hour, in a speech where he will appear with middle class families he claims this bill will benefit. >> we're very, very close to an historic legislative victory, the likes of this rarely has


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